A tense exchange unfolded Tuesday during a Senate Budget Committee hearing when Sen. John Kennedy sharply criticized testimony from immigration policy analyst David Bier after Bier accused the administration of President Donald Trump of attempting what he described as a “population purge.”
As Fox News reported [1], the hearing, titled “Sanctuary Cities: The Cost of Undermining Law and Order,” included testimony from several witnesses invited by Democratic lawmakers.
Bier, who works as an immigration policy expert at the Cato Institute, argued during his remarks that immigration—both legal and illegal—benefits the United States economically.
During questioning from Sen. Chris Van Hollen, Bier said immigrants help reduce the national deficit and contribute to the country’s workforce.
“There are clear reasons for believing that they are reducing the deficits and debt, they are a benefit to this country, and we need more people who are going to contribute in the future as our population ages,” Bier said.
Bier further argued that immigrant workers participate in the labor force at higher rates than the national average.
“It’s easy to understand why” immigrants reduce the deficit “because they work at 12 percentage points higher than the national average, they use less benefits because they’re subject to constraints, unique barriers to applying for those benefits, in particular Social Security and Medicare. Those are by far our largest programs, and they’re not eligible for those at all if they’re here in the country illegally or if they came legally and they don’t have a sufficient work history to qualify.”
The discussion escalated when Bier defended federal judges who have issued rulings opposing immigration enforcement actions carried out by the Trump administration.
Bier said judges opposing the administration’s policies were “much braver” than officers working for U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
“They are much braver. They put their names on their rulings, and they stand behind their constitutional rulings,” Bier said.
Bier also accused the administration of attempting to reduce the population of the United States.
“They’re trying to deport U.S.-born citizens, people born here, they are trying to deport them as well. So, it’s not a mass deportation agenda; it is also an agenda intended to reduce the population of the United States, including U.S.-born people.”
Kennedy responded directly to Bier’s comments.
“What planet did you parachute in from?”
“You trigger my gag reflex.”
The Louisiana senator’s remarks drew attention during the hearing as lawmakers debated immigration enforcement policies and the effects of sanctuary city laws.
Bier also told lawmakers earlier in the hearing that more immigration could help address long-term fiscal challenges.
“According to the Social Security Administration, we need about 35 million more workers in order to keep revenues equal to expenses by the middle of the 2030s,” he said.
“So, we are at a position right now where immigration is not going to solve it. Obviously, it’s not going to solve it, but it is moving us in the right direction.”
“These are people who are showing up, they’re ready to work, they’re often prime-age individuals who are ready to enter the labor force.”
“So, it’s a huge benefit fiscally to the United States to have these people who want to contribute to our country,” Bier added.
Another Democratic lawmaker at the hearing, Sen. Alex Padilla, defended sanctuary policies and argued that such policies can benefit communities.
“Data shows that sanctuary policies actually make communities safer, healthier, and more prosperous. That’s right, the evidence shows, the research shows sanctuary jurisdictions have lower crime rates, higher median household income, less poverty, less reliance on public assistance, higher labor force participation, and lower unemployment,” Padilla said.
“That’s right. It seems like sanctuary cities are helping to make America great, I said it,” he added.
Republican lawmakers challenged Bier’s testimony during the hearing. Sen. Bernie Moreno criticized Bier after questioning him about immigration laws.
“You haven’t answered my question, but that’s okay. You’re a smug guy, and that’s part of your shtick,” Moreno said.
Moreno later criticized the group of witnesses called to testify.
“This is the best that Democrats can come up with,” Moreno said.
“This is the best witnesses you’ve got? A guy who can’t distinguish whether it’s okay to have people enter our country illegally. Of all the millions of people that you could have chosen to testify … the best you have is a guy who has no idea what our immigration law is, and isn’t sure if somebody should enter the country illegally [and] another guy is a smug guy who obviously has an agenda.”
After the hearing, Bier told Fox News Digital that the exchange focused on immigration policy broadly rather than illegal immigration specifically.
“This exchange had nothing to do with illegal immigration,” Bier said. “The question was about immigration generally.”
The hearing was part of an ongoing debate in Congress regarding immigration enforcement, sanctuary city policies, and the impact of migration on the country’s finances and labor force.